runway woes

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 05/30/2019 at 11:48 • Filed to: None

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pip bips infrastructure post made me think of the big issue going on in my state. mainly that the second biggest airport in the state is closing up shop for 4 months while they tear out the runway, excavate 18 million cubic feet of Earth (5400 feet by 200 feet by 17 feet) and put in a new one. that wouldn’t be too unusual expect the airport has been open only 8 years. ouch. 24 million. The runway is wavey and rippled because of soil expansion. i flew into this airport a few months ago. i recall the bumpy ride but mostly remember the hilariously steep approach.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

At least the flight in is spectacular.  

TheRealBicycleBuck > HammerheadFistpunch 05/30/2019 at 12:11

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That sucks. I’ve landed on a couple of bumpy runways. That’s not too bad. The ones that really suck are the ones that have a significant slope. 

For Sweden > HammerheadFistpunch 05/30/2019 at 12:11

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This is only the start of the airport construction process.

First you build the runway. Then you sue the contractor for building it poorly. Then you rebuild the runway.

https://www.latimes.com/local/la-xpm-2013-oct-17-la-me-cracking-lax-runway-20131018-story.html

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > HammerheadFistpunch 05/30/2019 at 12:14

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It sounds like the runway is constructed over clay, clay is the absolute worst material to build on top of. That being said whoever designed and built this runway should know better, this has been common knowledge for like the last 75 years.

HammerheadFistpunch > For Sweden 05/30/2019 at 12:19

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I was just reading how they had the FAA had come out and to ride along in a truck doing 80 down the runway and they hit their heads on the ceiling. They said they’d foot the bill if it was determined it was built the way they expected it to be built. 16 grand of engineering assessment later and yup. it was built exactly as designed they just underestimated mother nature.

HammerheadFistpunch > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/30/2019 at 12:25

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They dug down to what they thought would be sufficient for clay, turns out it wasn’t. This area is geologically interesting and while 4 feet down in some areas is more than enough in other areas you need much much more and its hard to tell which one its going to be. The other issue is that if you dig down enough to be sure you might be double or tripling cost.

The real flub is what happened at my local hospital where they built a hel ipad on the roof but didn’t ask anyone what kind of helicopter was going to be using it. well all our helicopters are too heavy for it. Good times.

HammerheadFistpunch > TheRealBicycleBuck 05/30/2019 at 12:27

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it wasn’t that bad, like i said I really remember the nose down high decent rate approach. That sticks in your memory.

facw > HammerheadFistpunch 05/30/2019 at 12:33

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It’s somewhat amazing that closing the airport for 4 months is better option than building a new runway before closing the old one.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > HammerheadFistpunch 05/30/2019 at 12:33

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We had this happen to a section of Interstate 90 near Missoula. You just drive down the road and your car is going boom-boom over the panels. They had to completely tear up the road and rebuild it.

HammerheadFistpunch > facw 05/30/2019 at 12:35

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its pretty well hemmed in geographically. Not much choice.

facw > HammerheadFistpunch 05/30/2019 at 12:43

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Looks like it would be easy to build to east. Seems like they could do any of these, and would have an even wider range of options if they went with a shorter runway (it doesn’t seem like anything that would normally use this airport is likely to need a 9,000 foot runway), probably everything could fly on a 5000 footer.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > HammerheadFistpunch 05/30/2019 at 12:51

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Digging deeper reminds me of the mineshaft gap scene from dr strangelove

HammerheadFistpunch > facw 05/30/2019 at 12:58

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not really, there is only really one good approach vector and putting in anoth er runway would require a complete redesign of the other infrastructure.

TheRealBicycleBuck > HammerheadFistpunch 05/30/2019 at 13:26

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I love doing slips to increase the descent rate. It’s like drifting but in an airplane. Full rudder, opposite ailerons to keep the direction of flight straight. Yee haw!

This guy is about to land on that runway and there isn’t a crosswind. He’s just dialed in full right rudder with enough left aileron to keep the plane heading toward the runway. Tons o f fun!

Ash78, voting early and often > HammerheadFistpunch 05/30/2019 at 13:29

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I was going to make a joke about building anything in a place that’s ground zero for being in a permanent state of erosion, but 8 years is still pretty pathetic. Vegas is like 2 hours away, right? Pretty inconvenient, especially for the college kids who can’t easily rent cars.

HammerheadFistpunch > Ash78, voting early and often 05/30/2019 at 13:35

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it's really going to suck for the one and only airline operating and based there

Thomas Donohue > facw 05/30/2019 at 14:36

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I was thinking the same thing. There’s a ridge about two miles to the northeast, but it didn’t look insurmountable.  

7:07 > HammerheadFistpunch 05/30/2019 at 18:58

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We’re flying in a couple developers for a training and have to fly them in to CDC or LAS because of the SGU closure. It’s ridiculous, but this whole area is a gamble when it comes to soils, compaction, or movement. Clay is our nemesis here.

And the final approach is especially fun coming in from Phoenix. It’s basically a handbrake U - turn followed by losing a few thousand feet in altitude.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > HammerheadFistpunch 05/30/2019 at 21:37

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Im curious how they intend on pouring to ensure no bumps.

HammerheadFistpunch > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 05/30/2019 at 22:50

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its not the pouring that was the issue, it was the ground expanding causing the problem.  They’ll pour their concrete like everyone else, one leg at a time.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > HammerheadFistpunch 05/30/2019 at 23:18

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I just dont know/understand how they would do to ensure the areas of higher pressure, over a surface so long don’t lead to areas lifting .

HammerheadFistpunch > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 05/31/2019 at 00:09

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it’s all about the soil. lots of bad Clay it. lots of new Clay in